Feasting for Change Podcast Episode Transcript
All efforts have been made to include Sencoten, Hul’qumi’num, Sooke and Nuu-chah-nulth spelling in this transcript at the time publishing. However, errors may be present and some words may be missing. As a research team we honour and respect Indigenous languages and will edit the transcript as needed and where possible to include accurate spelling.
00:00:10 Cindy
On today’s episode of Around the Table, we are in conversation with members of Feasting for Change, an Indigenous-led project in Coast Salish territories in the area that is also colonially known as Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada.
00:00:25 Cindy
Feasting for Change, focused on community building, Indigenous resurgence and decolonization through the revitalization of traditional knowledge about the healing power of foods, this intergenerational land-based project took place from 2007 to 2012 and held more than 51 feasts and events in the 9 South Island Coast Salish communities and a large urban community served by the Victorian Native Friendship Center.
00:00:57 Cindy
The voices that you will hear in this episode were recorded over 2 gatherings, with members of Feasting for Change in May and December of 2023.
00:01:08 Cindy
In May, the Around the Table research team myself, Cindy, along with my colleagues Fionna and Leslie, gathered with the following members of Feasting for Change: W̱SÁNEĆ Elders Earl Claxton Jr., XEṮXÁṮEN, and Anna Spahan
00:01:23 Cindy
and Scia’new First Nation Elder Isabelle Charles, along Tina Tehano of the Scia’new First Nation, Raven Hartley, of the Rainy River First Nation, and collaborator Fiona Deveraux, a white settler of Irish ancestry. We gathered outdoors at TIX̱EṈ, a very important place for W̱SÁNEĆ people, on the traditional territory of the Tsawout First Nation.
00:01:54 Cindy
TIX̱EṈ is where we shared food, stories and laughter and learned about their innovative project and the importance of revitalizing traditional Coast Salish knowledge about food and feasting. In December 2023, some members of the group gathered again to record additional stories to share, and we bring these two recordings together in this important episode about Feasting for Change.
00:02:22 Fiona
Feasting for Change has modestly contributed to the ongoing process of healing. Feasting for Change took place on the Coast Salish territory and was inspired by the knowledge of traditional food practices among Indigenous people of these lands. Led by Elders, it was determined that youth should play a role in facilitating and guiding the overall project. The working group, comprised of Indigenous communities, the health authority, community groups, individuals and students from UVic. The structure of the group was based on the principle of reciprocity, intergenerational knowledge transfer and education. Anna about her medicines at the beginning. It’s so profound, but then she was at, you know, each feast with her medicines and the tables there to connect and share. And just the community building and relationship building.
00:03:08 Raven
We had the babies, the Elders and everyone in between.
00:03:12 Tina
So here we are, gathered at TIX̱EṈ spit for yet another feast. After several years have passed, gathered over seafood, crab, XIW̱E, which is sea urchins, and lots of other homemade food.
00:03:31 Fiona
Everyone kind of brought a little bit of their own deliciousness to it. Ohh honey, homemade honey. And it’s been a while since we got together, right? I think it’s been almost seven or eight years since we’ve had kind of a little feast. Who’s around the table? Should we introduce ourselves?
00:03:54 Elder Isabel
Isabel Charles, Elder, Beecher Bay, my Indian name is …..[NOTE: Isabelle requested no text for her Indian name]. My Dad’s one of the originals from here. That’s how we came back from Washington state and it took a long time to acclimate to reserve life. So far, we’re doing a little better. Thank you.
00:04:19 Tina
Tina Tejano, Isabella’s daughter.
00:04:23 Fiona
And Tina, did you bring anyone with you?
00:04:25 Tina
Yeah, I have my son, Enzo.
00:04:29 Fiona
He’s the joy of the meal.
00:04:32 Elder Anna
My name is Anna Spahan. I’m from Tsartlip. My father is Chris Paul. My mother’s name was Feena Wilson. So originally, I’m Anna Paul, better known to everyone else as Anna Paul. But I got married. My last name is Spahan and I’m still from Tsartlip.
00:04:54 Elder Earl
Earl Claxton Junior, in English, XEṮXÁṮEN in Sencoten, and that name comes from my great, great grandfather from Malahat, who long ago when the European people first came here, they couldn’t speak our language and we couldn’t speak theirs. So they came into our territory with a hat, with names in it, and we were asked to pick a name out of the hat and that would become our last name. But my great great grandfather XEṮXÁṮEN, he was a very stubborn man and he said no ‘My name is XEṮXÁṮEN. That’s it. I’m not changing my name’. And so Claxton is the anglicized version of XEṮXÁṮEN. I always think my ancestor for his stubbornness long ago. Because Claxton is an unusual name.
00:05:54 Tina
I’m Tina from Beecher Bay.
00:05:57 Raven
My name is Raven Hartley. I’m Anishinaabe on my mom’s side from Northwestern Ontario. My community is called Rainy River First Nation. And on my dad’s side, I am mixed European. And I’ve been living on. The lək̓wəŋən speaking peoples territory for 15 years’ish. I got involved with Feasting for Change when I was 15.
00:06:23 Fiona
I’m Fiona, Fiona Devereaux I’m a white settler of Irish ancestry. I’m first generation to these lands.And I have benefited and lived off the unceded ancestral and stolen lands of the lək̓wəŋən, W̱SÁNEĆ and the Sooke and Beecher Bay First Nations for the last 20 years. I come from the prairies as well, so the homelands of the Métis.I come from a passion of food or more like I just. Like to eat so. Then I got a degree in nutrition so I could just keep eating all the time. But I came into this work thinking I knew which, you know, with a lot of arrogance, a lot of not knowing. One of the most beautiful things that happened at these feasts, as you set the table with the food and people come. And especially the intergenerational knowledge transfer. We would have Earl outside cooking fish, barbecuing fish heads or barbecuing clams. He’d be around the fire and then Anna, one of her Elders, would be inside with all her medicines and the table full, with the plant knowledge and the plant wisdom of the land. And then there would be these like just opportunity for networking and connection and people could come up and sit around the fire and chat with Earl and learn like how much knowledge Elders have that is specifically Earl or sit by Anna and ask about plants and connect with her deep knowledge about the healing medicines of plants. And so nothing could be more beautiful than when you’re connecting the generations and connecting across communities, connecting settlers to Indigenous people by setting the table with the wise ones the old ones, the Elders.
00:08:15 Elder Anna
When I was little, that’s what we used to do. My dad used to take me from home to home like we go like next door and they’d have this big table like that and share food and share stories, talk about their little children and some projects they’re working on. My grandfather would be making new nets for fishing and I’d sit and watch him. I don’t know how he did it, cause the little knots he’d make, those fish nets, what do you call it?
00:08:46 Elder Earl
SX̱OLE, reef net?
00:08:48 Elder Anna
Yeah, he would be tying all those little things and I tried and I couldn’t do it. But my grandfather was so good at making those nets, and I learned a lot just by going from house to house, and that was what we did on Saturday and Sunday. Dad would take time off from work and take me around with visiting all the Elders and the ladies would have a big meal like this, and that’s really beautiful to see. And I was only about 3 or 4 when this all took place. For me to remember even is a wonder.
00:09:24 Elder Earl
Yeah it is.
00:09:25 Elder Anna
Cause some of my stuff comes and goes.
00:09:29 Fiona
Except your love of crab.
00:09:32 Elder Anna
Yeah.
00:09:29 Fiona
Or XIW̱E. I’m probably not saying that right, but.
00:09:34 Elder Anna
Say it.
00:09:39 Cindy
Say it again.
00:09:41 Elder Anna
XIW̱E.
00:09:42 Cindy
XIW̱E.
00:9:45
(group laughter)
00:10:04 Raven
Oh my gosh. (laugher) Ah, OK.
00:10:11 Fiona
OK, you finally won. The crab lost.
00:10:14 Raven
OK.
00:10:15 Elder Anna
Did you get it?
00:10:16 Cindy
I think so. XIW̱E.
00:10:17 Elder Anna
Yeah.
00:10:20 Fiona
XIW̱E. It’s much easier than what I was saying. Thank you
00:10:29 Elder Anna
There’s no ‘K’ in there.
00:10:25 Fiona
Yeah.
00:10:29 Elder Anna
Like KEXMIN. Like ‘guckmeen’, that’s not right. Just have to hear it right, not copy others. So many do you say ‘guckmeen’.
00:10:46 Fiona
Yeah.
00:10:46 Fiona
Yeah. KEXMIN.
00:10:48 Elder Anna
Because they don’t know the difference.
00:10:50 Elder Anna
They can’t hear.
00:10:51 Elder Anna
No, no. Not taking time to show the proper pronunciation. Spit it out. (laughter)
00:10:5 Fiona
And we’re sitting in a meadow of KEXMIN.
00:10:58 Cindy
Yeah, we were talking about it earlier. We were looking at the plant cards because it’s in those cards that you made and you make a tea to help if you have a cold or sore throat.
00:11:10 Elder Anna
Yes. Another thing I was telling the last group I was teaching about being diabetic. Anyway, I went to Ottawa for a meeting and halfway through the meeting I went totally blind, totally blind.So I had to come back home. The lady that was with me brought me home and they said to go to the lab. So I went in there and the next day when after I got home, And I had to take a cab because I didn’t know where I was going. And I got into the lab, did the blood test. And you know what my account was? 40 You know what that means? Yeah, just the point of unconscious. So she says ‘I think you better hospitalize you’ And I said I can’t ‘I got a baby at home’. My baby is my little dog.And then she says, do you have a ride home? And I said yes. And I walked home.
00:12:18 Fiona
Stubborn mule. (laughter)
00:12:20 Elder Anna
And then the next day, she said ‘I want you back here. I want to check you again. So I went home and made my medicine that I usually have. And went back the next morning at 7:00 in the morning. She took my test. She said she was absolutely shocked. My account was 4.2 from 40. And that’s just for my diabetes and I’m no longer diabetic.
00:12:49 Fiona
Well, that just shows the power of the medicines and the power of culture, right? And the land.
00:12:56 Elder Anna
Yes. And believing. That’s the main part we want to be healed. You got to believe in it.
00:13:04 Elder Anna
OK it’s your turn.
00:13:05 Elder Earl
Alright. Well, I remember, also, when I was younger about visiting my granny. She said I wanna go visit with your dad, Chris and so I said, yeah, OK. And so it took my granny over there and I do remember the visits. They were quite common then, you don’t see it so much anymore, actually, not at all, I don’t think.
00:13:4 Elder Anna
No.
00:13:42 Elder Earl
And even longhouse stuff was important and the Chief used to come around to each house.
00:13:47 Elder Anna
MHM.
00:13:44 Elder Earl
And the Chief would come around, and knock at the door and say you’re invited to go to the dance tonight and everyone went and watched. It was all important part of the
00:13:58 Elder Anna
And there was no fear.
00:14:01 Elder Earl
Yeah, that’s right. So it was a different time growing up down here. That first time trying XIW̱E. And when I was young, I used to be running around playing all the time. There was an Elder, Tista was his name, which came from his name Baptist, and they just called him Tista. Anyway, he go out in his canoe come back with something and we always used to run when some coming in with one down to the beach and help pull up his canoe and and then look in the canoe and see what he had. Well, one day I was by myself and I saw him coming in So I ran down, helped him pull up his canoe, and I looked at the bottom of the canoe is all purple. It’s full, and I looked at him and I said, what are you gonna do with this? He didn’t say anything. He just went over. He picked, went up, went over to a rock and about that hard and split like an egg, right? Right in half. And then he scooped up the middle and handed it to me and I I ate it. That was the first time I had it. And I thought it was alright. But that was how you learned. They show you once and then you’re supposed to know from then on, you can do that, but I’ve never tried to split one on a rock to see if I could do it or not. But it’s important place for us here and when the tide is out like it is now, that was our saying was when the tide is out, the table is set. That just meant that no matter how poor you were, you had no money. You can still come down to the beach and collect clams or crabs and then go home and eat like a king. So, I always remembered that. The ocean and tides beach with our friend and supplied us with good food. And I remember walking on the beach sometimes too. And and you could see the squirt with the clam shooting up. And sometimes I’d be walking and would shoot up my leg on the and I could feel it. And I’ve always liked to crab from the first time that I ever had it and the same with salmon, the smoked salmon, first time I had smoked salmon, and I remember my eyes getting real big aaying where can I get more of this? And I see the same thing happening if I share it with my friends. My W̱ENITEM friends. They’re saying their eyes get real big and they say the same thing. Where can I get more of this? And all you gotta do is come down and help me cut and chop wood. And it’s a lot of hard work. But they never came and helped. At least I don’t remember any of them coming to help me do that. It’s hard work. But certainly delicious, and I remember ,y granny, like I wasn’t allowed to cut. And then one day, she said. Tomorrow I’m gonna teach you, how to cut fish. I was so excited I could barely sleep at night and I was up early the next morning, kept looking out to see if my granny was coming out yet finally she came out and I went, stepping out there and she got a fish and cut along the back around the head and around the tail and then cut the fish and flipped it off. Open enough that the bone,. just a perfect cut. You can see that there’s no bones in it. Then she flipped it over and repeated to the other side, flipped it open. Beautiful cut. And the fish just came right off and just the head, the tail and the guts and the holes, the left and the brought down to the ocean pushed out head first to show it respect, return it back to the ocean. She cut that one fish and it was about 85 I think fish that day. And then she just said to me, OK, the rest are yours. So she just showed me once and so I remember the first cuts were more like hamburger.
00:18:44
(laughter)
00:18:52 Elder Anna
You gotta have a sharp night.
00:18:54 Elder Earl
It was sharp. (laughter) I just didn’t know how to cut. But after you do it for a while, I started getting pretty quick and pretty good at it. That’s how I learned how to cut fish. Then years later I got hired to go up to Cowichan to demonstrate cutting fish and so I got up there and they asked about the salmon there and they said, oh, it’s in the back there in the kitchen. So I went back there and all the students came around. They’re all piled around the table and I remember cutting it. And I was thinking to my grandmother and I cut it and I flipped open. It looked just like how she had done it that day. And same thing I did the other side. And that’s the part I had a hard time with the other side. And I did it. Flipped it open, same thing. It was just a beautiful cut. It was just like my granny was guiding my hand that day or something and everybody just thought it was just ‘you made it look so easy’. And it does. But long ago we didn’t have knives, just had sharp stone and it just slipped the skin along the back, and then finish it with your hands. And when I heard, from my uncle. And I said I gotta try it and I did and it works. You can’t just slip, it comes right off just perfect and all those things. When I hear about something, I always want to try and see if I can do it. And once I heard that all the men would go out to catch salmon for the village for the whole year and the shaman or medicine man went out with them, to open the fishery and he opened the fishery with a prayer saying please come back again next year, we’re still poor yet and we still need your sustenance. And that opened the fishery. But he was also out there to count the salmon because he knew how much salmon was needed for the whole village for the whole year. And once there was enough salmon, he closed the fishery by selecting one salmon for ceremony back at the village.
00:21:15 Elder Earl
And when he selected that salmon, that was the signal that there was enough salmon for everyone, and we didn’t need to take anymore. So even all the fish that were already caught in the net, they were all released because the W̱SÁNEĆ believed that if you took more salmon than you needed, you would waste it and wasting a salmon was one of the worst things you could do in your lifetime. It brought shame on you. And it brought shame on your family if you did something like that. So it’s something that was never ever done. And this was at a time when there was salmon spawning in every creek, every river, every waterway, every stream. And there’s even a ditch that runs by my house, even right now there’s a ditch that is still there. And my dad said that there was salmon spawning in that ditch.
00:22:13 Elder Anna
Hmm.
00:22:14 Elder Earl
He said he knew that they were there because he could hear them swimming up at night at that time. The Chief and councils always made sure that there was enough salmon going up the river, so even the tribes at the far end of the river got salmon. That’s how much they were concerned about conservation of the the salmon and then the W̱ENITEM came and they outlawed our reef net, arbitrarily, there was no reason to outlaw it, and they told us, my dad said, they said it was an unfair way to catch salmon, and then after they got rid of us and outlawing that, then they allowed the to[MOU1] come in and start fishing that way. So we’ve always been conservation minded in regards to the salmon and we have high regard for we call them the salmon people because they believed that they were humans at one time and got transformed. And even the salmon, we believe that the one school of salmon was one family and we didn’t want to take the whole family, so a hole was put at one end of the reef net so that some of the family could escape. And we consider the chum salmon to be the smartest of all the salmon, because it was the only one that could jump out of the nets. It’s true. And when the salmon is coming home and the spawn in the fall we believe that they’ve been gone away for a long time and they’re coming home now and they put on their nice coats to come home, their nice colored coats.
00:24:09 Fiona
You speak so well about, like, just you had such an important teachers in your life that you became such a profound teacher in part of the feasts, you were so integral, right? And I think about the salmon and just the amount of effort you put in. I remember the day you cooked the salmon heads and I’ve never seen anything that beautiful in my life. And is there anything around just your commitment to showing up to those feasts all the time? Like, you know I was always like ‘I’ll see you at 8:00’ [laughter] you know, but is there anything around your role in passing on those traditions that the feasts you’d like to share about?
00:24:52 Elder Earl
Whenever I cook salmon heads like that, the Elders always walked straight over to me and they say “save me one”. And I know that they love eating the the cheeks, the eyes and the brain of the salmon, and they crave it because there’s micronutrients in there that they need, and they just love eating it. Well one day I cooked about 8 heads I think like that and I had them already and I had them sitting there in the the grade four class came down from the tribal school and they were looking at the salmon heads and they said ‘can we eat the eyes?’ And I said ‘yeah, go ahead’ and they did. They picked out all the eyes and they ate the eyes. I couldn’t believe it. And the Elders came and they were looking at where’s the eyes? That’s my favorite part. [laughter from group] I’m still amazed that they did that, but it was a good thing, I think, to teach them stuff like that. And it is very beautiful picture, I think of the the role of salmon heads baking like that. Whenever I do the salmon heads, The first thing they want to do is, the W̱ENITEM people want to do is to take pictures of it, of the heads.
00:26:18 Fiona
It’s artistry.
00:26:19 Elder Earl
It is. It’s beautiful. And my dad said we ate salmon every day, he said once in a while we had something different. And he said when his aunt, or mom was making supper, he would watch to see what they reached for to make for supper. And he said it was salmon. So he was pretty tired of eating salmon every day. And sometimes his mom would say go and catch a salmon for supper tonight. You have a fresh salmon for supper. So he would get in his canoe and tie the line around his knee and row, and he said I’d have two salmon in about 15 minutes, he said. And because we had such a good diet of eating the camas that was cooked in the pits. The slow cook transformed the starches in the bulb into good sugars, and so our people regularly lived beyond 100 years old, and some of them were even 130 years old, from eating salmon every day and always working and always doing something for their lives, so they lived long and happy lives.
00:27:42 Fiona
I think of you, cause if I’d call you and be like we’re gonna do a feast and it could be at the top of the island, anywhere, you always said, yeah. What about coming together and feasting was always like, ‘sure, pick me up at whatever’.[laughter]
00:27:57 Elder Anna
I was telling my son about our trip to Olympia, I don’t know what I was thinking and I told him I went to Washington, to the White House [laughter] But I didn’t even go there. I don’t know where my mind was, and he says you, what did I say? [laughter] So I had to repeat this story all over. But that was so funny because he really thoughts I went to Washington, he thought I really did. Yeah.
00:28:43 Elder Earl
I know they think.
00:28:44 Elder Anna
That yeah, it was just the boo boo that time. I don’t know where my mind is heavy.
00:28:46 Raven
Yeah, I was working with Earl as a summer student and we worked late one day and went to the Friendship Center for a meeting and I didn’t really know what I was walking into, which was kind of the motto of that summer, we just went wherever Earl went.
00:29:04 Elder Earl
That’s right.
00:29:08 Raven
And we met Fiona and Kate and learned about Feasting for Change and I was so excited because I loved crab and I heard them hanging out with those two ladies meant I could eat crab. [laughter] I was like, OK, let’s do it. So we went to the first feast was in well, that I went to was in Pauquachin, and we helped with the pit cook. And that’s kind of all I remember from that day was just helping with the pit cook. But after that, I was just hooked and I loved the food and hanging out with everybody. I grew up really removed from my culture. I didn’t know I was Indigenous until I was 13. Because I grew up in the States and it just wasn’t as around. And so I lived in my reserve for a very small amount of time and didn’t get the exposure of the experience to food and traditional ways of eating until I came out here. Yeah. So I worked with Feasting for Change from that year. I think it was 2009. Yeah. So then I started doing the youth side of it and went into a couple of schools to try and recruit couple different youths. And we did some feasts, geared towards youth or like events at feasts. One of the major things that I loved about attending feasts was seeing the knowledge exchange between generations and just knowing the connection that the traditional foods has and brings our ancestors in to,like into the moment with us, just with food and that just always felt so special to me. So it was a major draw. And then like learning about the health benefits and the beauty of food. Later, I had my daughters and when they were able to eat solid foods, I wouldn’t let anybody feed them anything until I could get my hands on salmon. And so salmon was the first solid foods for both of them.And now they love seafood. They are obsessed. My daughter loves JEM¸EŚ, herring eggs. It’s her favorite. She goes nuts for them and crab. They also love crab. Yeah.
00:32:05 Elder Earl
When you’re talking about the impact of Feasting for Change, because I didn’t know how to do pit cooks.
00:32:12 Fiona
Yeah.
00:32:14 Elder Earl
And I learned from when I started doing work with Feasting for Change, and I can still remember going to one of my first pit cooks and the Elders getting there and some of them would start to cry because they thought that was a lost, something that was, nobody was going to learn that it wasn’t going to get passed on, but it did. And so now I do pit cooks and cooking fish on a stick in the traditional manner and try and introduce those methods back into our community for health reasons.
00:32:53 Elder Anna
Smoked salmon
00:33:53 Elder Earl
Smoked salmon and all those things. I try and introduce our people back to eating clams and crabs and the things from the ocean is a good thing.
00:33:06 Elder Isabel
My name is [missing word. Isabelle requested no text] Isabelle Charles from Beecher Bay. I met Fiona, and she came out to Beecher Bay. We did a couple of Feasting for Change and I like the theme, reconnecting the youth with the Elders through food. A lot of people came to our feast from different reserves, UVic and I don’t know who else was there, but there was a lot of people and I believe this would be good for the young people because a lot of young people are detached from their culture. I’m glad my grandson is here to witness but he doesn’t like seafood [laughter] a lot of our young people are fast food babies and that’s no good. Fiona was one of the friendliest women that came out to Beecher Bay. [laughter] Most of the people that come out, they say a few words and they’re out the door. Or I’m out the door. [laughter] It was fun doing the meals with the young kids, some of my grandkids are in the Feasting for Change. And they’re all grown up. Some of them are doing well. Some of them aren’t doing very well. There’s a lady on Beecher Bay who’s trying to revive the Klallam language, so we’re taking a trip to Port Angeles in August. That’s where the Klallam people live. Hopefully we’ll be going on a canoe journey and my grandson will witness some more culture. But I have some personal business to deal with, so I have to find out if I’m able to go this year. But I paddled to [missing word] in 2012. [laughter] That was hard would come up to Juan de Fuca and the ferry was coming.[laughter] Oh. That was scary, but we did well. We didn’t tip over. We didn’t hit any big waves, and the kids did well. Some of my grandkids are on the canoe. This is good for my family to witness because we’re detached from our culture because we lived in Seattle for a long time. It was convenient though,[laughter] if you live in Canada you have to have a car. Everywhere I go, I take my grandson and my daughter. She’s my backup driver. So, I thank you, ladies for inviting me. It was such a good meal. Thank you.
00:35:54 Cindy
Thank you.
00:35:55 Fiona
I’m just trying to remember the first feast here, Sooke asked us to invite all the Elders, and I went and hand delivered all the invites out and I wanted to ask the Elders if they wanted to do a food conference. That was what I was thinking like, would that be a good thing? Like somewhere central on the island and we bring everyone out of their communities and some of the Elders, and I just remember you were sitting there with Doreen at the end of the table, and there were so many Elders in the room and they had said that they hadn’t been invited cross communities unless it was a funeral. And they were like, ‘no, we don’t want to leave our communities. We want you to bring, like, set the table in our own communities with our food’. And like, it’s something so simple. And then so brilliant. I was like, oh, of course. But then of course, I didn’t know the food system very well. I kept on recommending salad to Elders, you know, like, [laughter] it wasn’t a good time. And like so, we slowly started to just set the table, but then that’s all you need to do. And then people would just come out. I remember being at Pauquachin, which and I think it was that same feast. So a lot of people were focusing on the pit cook, but there were all these crabs getting ready to be cooked and a gentleman just volunteered this time. But then he made sure all the kids were there and we’re there to watch the crab get cooked. And then he cleaned all the crabs in front of all the kids and he made them sit like in a little circle. And I was just like, ohh. And so it’s not like we had organized him to do this. It was like the food naturally facilitated connections and relationships. And then I also, as an outsider started to see that people had these intergenerational connections to these foods, so they just knew what to do. And I didn’t have to do anything, like the food would just kind of magically show up somehow, like, and then people would be just there. Yeah. So it was just profound for me that idea of not taking people out of their community but coming home. And then, of course, because communities are so generous that inter-community, people could be invited across communities. And that was super beautiful. And then we started to also see the food infrastructure system because of ongoing colonialism and pollution, and certain communities would be able to provide the crab and the XIW̱E but they don’t have any deer or salmon and so there is a trade routes communicated to me and helping me understand, but also then starting to unearth the amount of harm that’s happened and loss that has happened towards the foods. But that setting the table and inviting people back was rekindling connections, relationships, but also a desire to do that, ongoing resistance that, you know, you talk about the resistance at the Marina development. Right. Like, that’s been going on and we are here At TIXEN Spit and Island View Beach is the settler version of this beautiful place but there’s starting to be some conversations about how the Nation can get back control over Island View, and it’s not control, it’s care. I guess, right? And that’s that different frame of reference. But I’ve been away from sitting around the table with food, as all of us have been through COVID, I just think about this plate is like the perfect feasting plate, right? Just delicious. You know, I always love to seeing the napkin pile, you know, it’s just like the sharing and eating and connecting. I remember one feast we had, there was 18 different foods on the plate. It was just so beautiful and I think emotional to see also all those foods being on the plate as well because I know how much loss is out there as well. But to me it was the voice, the chatter, the connection. And like you said, they’d be the chatting and then the quiet when people were eating. And so for me, being part of this work, like when I say I was kind of a *******, I was. I was someone that hadn’t done the unlearning and this project, these people around this table, this food systems, helped me heal and continues to help me heal from colonialism and my role in that, and I still am beyond grateful for getting to know the land that I’m on and the foods of the land that I’m on. And then the people of the lands that I’m on, and how that’s helped me begin to get curious about my heritage. And I remember the first time I was in Ireland and I saw nettle, and I was like ‘oh you’re here too’. And so really getting to know the people whose land you’re on and the foods of those lands can help you get curious about where from. I don’t see any of the connections and relationships that were built, as superficial, like they were deep because you have to get the food, you have to cook the food. You have to eat the food and then you have to then make sure it’s all shared in a good way. There’s no waste. And like today, just driving by Elders houses to make sure that sea eggs get to the right people so. I feel like the deepest, rudest, beautiful community building. And I remember when Isabelle asked us to come out and it was just the same, but in her community and with all the great knowledge and wisdom that was located there. And then there’d be like, bring Early too. And my favorite is when you saw Hank chips and Earl just working around the fire. And so that relationship building and connection between nations and communities. Yeah. Still, just feel greatly honored to be able to be a part of it. Even just being here today, it sparks you around like, oh, we should do this more often again.
00:42:03 Fiona
What’s funny, that for me that I can easily go right back to the feasts, which I think shows how meaningful they were to me as an outsider and as someone that needed to learn about the food system of these lands. And I can’t read books. That is just not where I learn, but I remember the first time I saw crab being cleaned. And it was in Pauquachin, I think. And this gentleman who was just happened to be there, knew the crabs needed to be cleaned and knew how. But what he did is he made sure all the kids came around and sat on the ground. It might have been in Malahat? I’m getting a bit mixed up about which nation we were in but he made all the kids sit and then he just taught them how to clean crab and for me it was just like, oh, my God, watching every every moment. Or the first time I saw crab cooked and then it was actually an Elder from Sooke, Gerald Lezard, who cracked it open and drank the butter and I was like, what’s happening, you know, so to me, that hands on practical aspect. And if all the food would have been cooked in a kitchen, we wouldn’t have been able to have the youth and the young people see it, but by having pit cooks, by having salmon BBQ or crab or it just felt like it was very outside.And then I remember Elders like Joan Morris making her scow bread on the sticks. So then the kids could do that. And so there was just really this innate opportunity for people to bring in their wise wisdom and brilliance around food, which I was so grateful for because so many of the aspects like Pakki’s nature walks [the late Pakki Chippes married into Scianew First Nation}
00:43:52 Fiona
Or when JB [JB Williams Tsawout First Nation] would take people on nature walks, people would be writing foolishly on them to try and capture what the plants were for, or the teachings or the stories. And then for someone to be like, we should make plant cards, you know?
00:44:06 Fiona
And so just really super grateful that people also learn that way and, like, disrupt the idea of books and knowledge and just that practical aspect of getting out on the land, which was so big for me and I think I remember being quite sure that when I invited, we all invited people out to Sooke for the first feast foods conference on the island and they were just like, yeah, no, we want this, we want our food in our own communities. That was really big for me like this. Don’t take us out of our community and I think that’s what I hear Isabelle saying? The first time someone said this is the first time we’ve been together where it’s not a funeral.
00:44:59Fiona
And I was like, ohh OK like this is this is something around just getting together to eat and laugh and care for each other. So I remember that being really powerful for me. I was think too of like Tsawout could help us get crab because they had the safer beach? Or had someone who could get the sea eggs. It was Beecher Bay or Tsawout could get crab or, and maybe Sooke too, those are the three Nations. But then we could trade like we’re hosting in somewhere else so that inter-food trading to that, it’s kind of like a system of food trade was beginning to kind of flourish.
00:45:49 Tina
Speaking of the plant cards, Enzo and I have been trying to get outside for short walks and I mentioned to him that we have cards, little plant cards, the whole, the whole stack of the plant cards and that next time that we go on our walk, we could take the plant cards. So I wonder if maybe you could do like the food cards like you did the plant cards with seafood and stuff?
00:46:12 Fiona
More Sencoten and Hul’qumi’num and that was always something that I found interesting, is that we started to learn like the Nuu–chah–nulth names, for, like food, and they were in my head still, you know, after all these years. Like, yeah, , KwAKMIS and [word missing].
00:46:39 Tina
And I can remember a Feast for Change that was done in our nation. And I remember loving it. There was like a theme I think it was “Connecting Youth and Elders through Food” and I simply loved that and we ended up getting together doing a feast, I think it was a pit cook. And learning so much about just the food and our environment around us was really, really cool and the kids enjoyed it. Yeah. And I haven’t been that involved, but I’ve been invited to a lot of feasts and the food is always amazing. And I have a new addition here, who is my six year old son. So looking forward to getting him to some feasts and understanding all about Indigenous foods and interested in it and harvesting and all that and just thankful to be here and thankful for all the food and the help and the knowledge and stories. Hopefully I’ll be able to pass on some of that.
00:47:47 Elder Earl
The Feasting for Change at The Friendship Center in Victoria, I remember meeting Fiona and how we both kind of hit it off right away. We’ve been good friends ever since. It was like the feasting for change part started to work like right away like instantly. So I thought that was pretty good, to be able to know somebody so friendly and and nice. It’s it’s really nice to meet someone like that.
00:48:27 Elder Earl
Well, that trip down to Washington was that part of Feasting for Change.
00:48:33 Elder Anna
The White House. [laughter]
00:48:34 Elder Earl
I thought that was a pretty good trip actually. I enjoyed that going down there, meeting with the Washington state people.
00:48:42 Fiona
I just remember you and the guy that was hanging the deer, hit it off really fast. Yeah, I was like, and we lost Earl. [laughter]
00:49:01 Elder Earl
How impressed I was with the way they caught deer that they didn’t shoot the deer, that they chased it down. I didn’t know that that happened to the deer that if you run there after them for long enough, their muscles all freeze up and they just fall over and then they can go up and take the deer. I’ve never heard of that before and I’m still quite amazed that they can how the heck do they track the deer through the forest and make it keep running until it does that? Just so amazed that they can do stuff like that. So it’s pretty nice. And they borrowed one of my fish cooking sticks and took part of the deer and cooked it next to the fire. And I thought that was pretty amazing. And it tasted good too. And their stories about collecting, huckleberry, they had 28 varieties of huckleberry and made special trips up the mountain to collect the berries.
00:45:55 Elder Earl
This place here is called the TIXEN and it translates as “almost cut in half” because in the winter time when we get the highest tides, there’s low parts in here and from the village site when you look this way, it fills up with water and it does. It looks like it’s gonna go right through to the other side and get cut in half.
00:50:26 Elder Earl
Here we’ve got some of our people are buried out here from the influenza that hit in the early 19. I think somewhere in that range. And my grandmother talked about when she was a little girl. She remembered going by the church and people were dying so fast that they couldn’t bury them and they, she said she remembered seeing the piles of bodies next to the church. And then after the influenza left and died down, they decided to have a mass burial out here. So a lot of our Band members are buried out here and also buried out here or Haida the people that we battled when they came, and they’re buried right where they fell. So we know they’re out here somewhere, but not exactly where.
00:51:30 Elder Earl
And so I remember growing up out here and fishing off the end of the spit, casting and I remember one day my dad went out fishing when this boat out there and then I went out and was casting off the end and I caught it. I think about a 12 LB salmon or something off the end and my dad got skunked that day. [laughter] So I felt pretty good. Another time I remember fishing out here and he was using herring strip, with a flasher and he started putting it out, letting it out, and the seagull came down and took the bait and it got hooked on its beak and I can still see my dad like it was flying up in the air like that. And he was reeling it in. He couldn’t believe it. But the you know, this place is a special place for me, especially Saanicton Bay, which I helped save one day. I became a SX̱ÍX̱I warrior that day. I am a SX̱ÍX̱I, Mask Dance Warrior and my dad said it was the this SX̱ÍX̱I, we were the Warriors and protectors of the village because the [Sencoten word missing] or the people in the longhouse, they fall down and become helpless whenever there’s danger about. And it’s true they do. They just fall to the ground and a noise starts coming out of them. They become totally helpless. So I feel it that day I became a SX̱ÍX̱I warrior when I stopped the dredger digging in Saanicton Bay.
00:53:27
And also I guess I think about the time when Saanichton Municipality were going to put a treatment plant down here and they wanted to come to through our village and put their pipe out the other side. And our Council said No. They didn’t think that was a good idea. And they said to us, well, our pipe is going to end right there at Saanichton Bay, and if we can’t go all the way through, it’s gonna have to come in through here. So that’s when the Council said it was OK for them to come through and they’re I can remember the mayor saying to our Chief, you can put a glass at the end of the pipe and drink it and it will be so clean and pure. And the Chief said to him, well, you take the first glass and I’ll take the 2nd. [laughter] And so was a total lie that the water was going to be that, clean. Because it’s not. We’ve taking over the plant now and that’s our dream is to make it possible so that you can put a glass at the end of the pipe and drink it.
00:54:46 Cindy
I think I just want to say how much I appreciate everyone and Fiona bringing us together and especially the Elders for sharing the stories and the time with us. And I’m so touched by the whole experience of hearing about what you did and what you still do in your communities. Like that project ended, but the work didn’t end. You’re all doing this work and thank you for sharing it with us today. And is there anything that anybody wants to say before we close? Is there a way of closing that you’d like to close the circle?
00:55:21 Fiona
There was one thing I thought of maybe, like, I just found like you guys all taught me how to set up the meetings too, that people wanted to come like that description that we weren’t just a working group like that we started to become a family and people that loved food. Is there anything on the power of relationships in even just the working group? Because 54 feasts in seven years was no small feat, you know?
00:55:52 Raven
I appreciate that now still I mean, it’s been all these years and I will still see people in Community and have the ability to you know, after all this time, we still have that at least one thing to relate on. So talking about the food and then that goes into family and how have you been doing all these years, but just having what feels like a core memory and for both of us and even though it’s been all that time, we still have that? Um, until that alone is like a beautiful relationship building tool.Ffood is so close to the heart, and we had that together.
00:56:42 Fiona
Yeah. Just like remembering the tastes, you know, like salmon, when it would be dripping from the fire and Earl would be like “anyone want to taste if it’s done?” [laughter]
00:56:55 Raven
Standing in the back of the Tsawout band office eating the sea urchin and trying so hard to love it, [laughter] I’m trying so hard and people caught all the photos of my different facial expressions. So that was humbling
00:57:15 Fiona
I mean that to me was also fascinating, we were hidden in the back of the Tsawout – and that happened multiple times with XIW̱E, and there would be like this whispering would hit the gym or the room and everyone, well, everyone meaning the old ones [laughter] and some of the people that were adventurous and wanted to try it, but they would come out. And I remember like seeing Elders just like smashing XIW̱E on the rocks or on wood so they could get it. And I was like, they know this is medicine. Like this is something I don’t think I really understand. Yeah. And then the kids would be right next to them cooking Bannock on a stick or we did something else on a stick
00:58:08 Raven
Oysters?
00:58:09 Fiona
on a stick, Earl’s clams on a stick. How did I ever forget?
00:58:11 Fiona
This is what the teaching was for me and you guys can correct me. Is that so often outside, people were brought in, back in the day, to teach or support Indigenous communities. And I remember the reframe was given to me, but like we have a ton of wisdom in our communities and knowledge so like invite our community members to be at these tables. And so that was the focus and that so even knitters were invited, like anyone that had a traditional ecological technology skill could come and join and be there. So Anna came to almost every feast, and had her medicine tables.
00:59:01 Raven
And Robin Suncole starting from, or was it
00:59:03 Fiona
Coleman.
00:59:11 Raven
Yeah, yeah. Coleman. Starting from Enzo’s age and having his plant guessing game. That’s also a big part of what I can remember at the tables. That was my favorite. Seeing him teaching everybody that walked up about the plants.
00:59:29 Fiona
Yeah. And I remember that being brought to us too, from Arvid Charlie in Cowichan and he came up and he had so many plants, and he only knew, like he was just like would only kind of like not, I don’t know if it was like intentional, but he would only share like the Hul’qumi’num name. And he just was so great. And it was just like this bounty of have plants and knowledge. And you could just like, feel him in the space. And so often I think that’s what, Yeah, if you set the table with the food, the knowledge keepers, and then the youth would come.
01:00:08 Fiona
Thank you for helping motivate me. We’ve been meeting with everybody individually because of silly COVID, but just to be able to connect and eat together and have Anna us the crab’s not cooked! And all the great stuff that just keeps this energy going. I’m just so grateful for each and every one of you.
01:00:35 Elder Earl
You raise your hands towards whoever you’re thanking, gently shake them towards who you’re thanking and say HÍ SW̱ KE. Thank you. Or HYCH’KA in Sooke. So it’s pretty close, the language, we say HÍ SW̱ KE here in W̱SÁNEĆ and HYCH’KA in Sooke. So HÍ SW̱ KE Siem. W̱SÁNEĆSiem is respected one. And it’s acceptable to use one hand too.
01:01:106 Cindy
HÍ SW̱ KE
01:01:107 Cindy
That’s it for this week and I look forward to seeing you next time. If you’re enjoying this, you can subscribe at Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us at our website aroundthetabledialogues.ca. Around the Table is produced by Cindy Holmes, Fionna Chong and Leslie Williams on the unceded ancestral and traditional territories of the lək̓wəŋən and W̱SÁNEĆ peoples. Support for Around the Table comes from the University of Victoria, Vancouver Community College and The Sharing Farm Society. Podcast editing is provided by New Leonard Media and Music is by Olszewski Kapalanski.
[MOU1]Missing word
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